It’s another life goal achievement for The Journalix with our second Doves interview – this time drummer/vocalist/songwriter Andy Williams! With the release of their sixth studio album Constellations For The Lonely, we spoke about the challenges the band have faced in recent years and how difficult it was to decide to tour without Jimi. Along with collecting vinyl and the great city of Manchester, in general…
ANDY WILLIAMS – THE DOVES INTERVIEW
THE JOURNALIX: Does every new album bring a dose of self doubt?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yeah, I mean, never take anything for granted. It’s very tough out there. So in terms of getting your music heard, it’s hard putting out music really because you’re quite often met with indifference.
And actually making music can be a hit and miss affair because we quite often write lots and lots of stuff. It’s not like we just sit there and 10 good songs come. It does take a bit of effort but it’s enjoyable most of the time, not all the time. I don’t know how it is for other bands or other artists but we are quite tough on ourselves.
It’s driven by bitter experience, you know?
THE J: I’ve heard you say that before, but you’ll rework songs as well, is that right?
ANDY WILLIAMS: All the time, man. Like a song on this record, say Cold Dreaming, that’s about six or seven years old. We just kept hitting brick walls a bit. So put it down, go on to something else…
Then you might hear it six months later if you’re going through some old demos and you can see the wood for the trees.
THE J: It’s one of my new favourites! It sounds like classic Doves with that epic cinematic sound!
ANDY WILLIAMS: People have said that it’s “very classic Doves”, which is really nice to hear. But for us, that was actually trying something really quite new. We felt we’d never covered that sort of psychedelic-soul, which we love, that era of music. So that was us kind of going to new territories.
THE J: Well that’s definitely a trait of a new Doves record. Always expanding and trying new things.
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yeah, it’s interesting just trying different things. Seeing what washes and what doesn’t.
SONGWRITING
THE J: Where do you find your inspirations when writing?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Everyday life, really. I carry a notebook around with me quite a lot so any ideas or any lyrics or something I will jot them down.
THE J: That’s cool, do you keep them all from over the years? You should publish them!
ANDY WILLIAMS: Some of my lyric books I’ve kept but I should maybe be a bit more careful with the other little notepads (!) It’s just so when I come to writing or working on some music, I’ll have a list I can go back to. I’m not just faced with a blank piece of paper, because that’s the scariest thing.
THE J: Do you write about your own personal experiences?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Not knowingly. I never sit down to write about my own situation or something. It’s always just a feeling. I do a lot better if I’m thinking about outside scenarios, like the filmic thing.
But there were definitely dark times on this record. Where we were very unsure about a lot of things, whether we would get to tour again. I’ve not heard the record since we mastered it but I definitely reckon in a year or two, when I hear it back, it will remind me of that. I guess I haven’t got quite enough distance from the record yet.
MANCHESTER + BLADE RUNNER
THE J: I read that there are themes of a fictional dystopian future for Manchester, akin to Blade Runner…?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yeah, we thought Renegade had like quite a futuristic thing to it. I started that song at home in my studio, and we felt it had a Scott Walker vibe to it, with the narration. I remember we were kind of mucking around with the lyrics. Originally, one of the lyrics was ‘Piccadilly Circus’, which again is a Scott Walker reference. And then we switched to Piccadilly Gardens. We’re like, OK, bingo! We could set this in the future, in Manchester…
We go back to [Blade Runner] a lot. It’s amazing. We watched it a lot growing up, so it’s kind of gone into our psyche. With Renegade, we even did the Vangelis synth sound at the beginning. It’s just us kind of paying our respects, really. I just think it’s such a visually rich film and all that imagery.
What would Manchester look like in the year 2060?
Currently, with the skyscrapers around, with drones… future Manchester everything’s shiny and new but I bet Piccadilly Gardens is still a shit hole. So, in the video for Renegade video director Tom Hingston sneaked in the wall… I think it was an art installation that cost over a £million and it’s been knocked down now.
THE J: It was like one big urinal really, wasn’t it? And was Tom Hingston involved with all aspects of the promo art this time around?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yeah he’s been great. He’s done all the artwork for the album, single covers and all the videos. We really like his next video for A Drop In The Ocean…
THE J: We heard great things about the album launch event at Jodrell Bank, who was involved there?
ANDY WILLIAMS: The flyer was done by my mate Mat, actually, Mat Norman. He’s one of my best mates, we go back a long, long time. It’s not his day job but he’s always got good ideas.
We went to the last showing at Jodrell Bank. It was nice being in the room with people hearing the record [for the first time]. I took my family, my kids. Yeah, it was a good day.
VINYL RECORDS
THE J: Are you a vinyl collector?
ANDY WILLIAMS: I do collect vinyl. I used to be pretty obsessive, not so much now. But I do buy, I’ll buy something every month. Maybe one or two albums.
THE J: We love the black smoke LP!
ANDY WILLIAMS: Dave [Rofe] our manager said Blood Records had been in touch and they’d like to do a special edition. I’m hoping I’ll get some next week!
THE J: It’s not the first time you’ve limited the prints of a record…
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yes with There Goes The Fear, deleted after a day. The label came up with the idea. We can’t take credit for that, we thought they were mad! It was Jeff and Martin Barrett from Heavenly Records. It was their idea and we went along with it and actually, I think it’s probably our highest charting singles as Doves. We had a number three previously with Sub Sub, but yeah, it did well for us that one.
THE J: I rank it as one of my favourite songs of all-time. Great that it got the love it deserved and still resonates with so many people.
ANDY WILLIAMS: Bless you, cheers. Yeah it seems to be a song people still connect with live, which is good. It’s sounding good in the rehearsal room, as well at the moment.
TOURING
THE J: With that in mind, have you had to rework any songs for the change in lineup?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yes, we have had to rework a couple of things and that’s good. We’ve enjoyed that because it’s keeping you fresh. Working with these new musicians has been great. it’s been a lot of fun, with a lot of laughs. And it’s brought a new energy to live, especially having two guitars now. Because Jez on record, tends to multi-layer his guitars. And he’s obsessive when it comes to his sound. We’ve never really been able to reproduce that live, but now we’ve got Jake [Evan]’s second guitar. It’s sounding more expansive, more wide. We just feel very chuffed that we’ve met Nathan [Sudders] and Jake and now Christian [Madden] is playing with us, we’re having quite a lot of fun.
To our ears, it’s sounding great. I’m excited.
THE J: Have you worked with the new guys before?
ANDY WILLIAMS: We knew Jake for years through mutual friends. I always struck him as a really sound person and a good all-round musician. And then Nathan, we got recommended off several people. He’s been in various bands in Manchester for years. Quite a few people said “Nathan Sudders, he’s your man” and he is. He’s a great musician, he’s really fitted in, and Christian who is now playing keys for us, too.
THE J: Ah, so no Martin this time?
ANDY WILLIAMS: No, he’s got prior arrangements with Hooky. We couldn’t compete with Hooky’s calendar! So, yeah, it was a blow losing Martin but Christian’s fantastic, a very different player to Martin, but he’s a great player. The personalities we’ve got are really good. It’s a real good mix of people, so I feel excited about going out on the road with everyone.
THE J: And this tour is essentially the first time you’ll be able to play The Universal Want live, too?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yeah, we’ve never toured The Universal Want. That was one of the real frustrating thing about that record because it seemed to connect with so many people. We were really excited about going on tour, playing the songs. But obviously, first time it got kiboshed with COVID, and then the second time Jimi wasn’t well. So… Yeah, it’s crazy. This is the first proper UK tour for 15 years. It’s been a long time.
THE J: How do you prepare for the physical exersions of a tour? I always think songs like Pounding and Black and White Town are particularly grueling for you as a drummer…?
ANDY WILLIAMS: I definitely have been going to the gym a bit more. As you get older, it does get more challenging to be up there.
But the adrenaline carries you through.
A DIFFERENT ENERGY
THE J: And to be fair, lead vocals have been shared somewhat between each of you since the early days… How do you feel about that responsibility?
ANDY WILLIAMS: It’s not something I’d be rushing into but in the present circumstances… Well, we’ve always split everything equally but they might be my lyrics or Jez’s music or Jimi’s. There’s quite a few of them where they’re my lyrics so I can bring a different energy. For instance, Kingdom of Rust, I’m singing that now, so the way I look at that song is probably different.
THE J: And you’ve had good practice with Black Rivers, haven’t you?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yeah, we have. We’ve had that kind of training, really. We felt it was obviously a very tough decision for us to make. We needed to promote this record, that we’d done together. It was a tough, tough decision. And we wouldn’t have if we couldn’t have made it work. So we started rehearsals about seven or eight months ago just to see if we can make it work. And we felt we could, which was such a relief.
It’s like, yeah, I think we can do this.
THE J: Talking of collaborating with musicians from other Manchester bands, were you close to forming another band before the Black Rivers album?
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yeah it was me, my friend Laurie, who is a bit of a keyboard and tech wizard, Ian Smith who used to be the guitarist in Alfie. He’s a great guitarist and all-round musician… We had a lot of fun doing it, but everyone was so busy, myself included. To get a band properly on the go, it takes a lot of time, takes a lot of money as well. It kind of fizzled out, really. But we did quite a few songs.
THE J: Right, so we need those notebooks and these demos publishing. We’ve got a plan!
ANDY WILLIAMS: Yeah, I’m not sure it would be in a state to release but there were a couple of good tunes, I think. I haven’t heard them for years but it was good fun. But to answer your question, sorry nothing really came of it, unfortunately. Maybe down the line, we’ll see.
DOVES – THE FUTURE
THE J: Finally, given all the achievements of the band, what are your ambitions for the future?
ANDY WILLIAMS: I’d have to say I don’t have a specific goal or anything. My near ambitions is just to play live. To play some festivals and good gigs. I’m not even thinking about making another record, it’s just to play live and do a good job of it.
THE J: And I’m sure you will.
SPOILER – They did!